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Melissa and Kate talk with Sasha Issenberg, journalist and political science professor at UCLA, about his book The Engagement: America's Quarter-Century Struggle Over Same-Sex Marriage. Issenberg offers a glimmer of hope about the lasting legality of same-sex marriage, even in light of Justice Clarence Thomas’s concurring opinion in Dobbs. But he warns about the dangerous exemptions that could be carved out through 303 Creative, which the Supreme Court has yet to issue an opinion on, but foreshadowed in its Hobby Lobby opinion.

• Buy your own copy of The Engagement: America's Quarter-Century Struggle Over Same-Sex Marriage (use STRICT10 for 10% off!)
• Read an excerpt of The Engagement: America's Quarter-Century Struggle Over Same-Sex Marriage
• Listen to our episode recapping arguments in 303 Creative v. Elenis 

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